OLD LYME ZONING COMMISSION
PUBLIC HEARING
Monday, September 10, 2012
The Old Lyme Zoning Commission held a Regular Hearing on Monday, September 10, 2012, at 7:30 p.m. in the Auditorium of Memorial Town Hall. Those present and voting were Jane Cable, Chairman, Jane Marsh, Secretary, John Johnson, Vice Chairman, Pat Looney (Regular Member), Ted Kiritsis (Alternate), and Harland Frazier (Alternate).
Also present: Ann Brown, Zoning Enforcement Officer.
Chairman Cable called the Public Hearings to order at 7:35 p.m. Ms. Marsh read the Legal Notice for all the Public Hearings, as published in the New London Day.
1. Petition to Amend the Old Lyme Zoning Regulations to allow in a Light Industrial District (LI-80) zone the constructing and operating of indoor recreational facilities. This would be a “Special Permit Use” under the provisions of Section 5.12.3 of the Zoning Regulations, Kasie Munson, 7 Duchess Drive and Patrick Pryor, 41 Jericho Drive, applicants.
Ms. Marsh read the list of exhibits for the record. She read the applicable Planning Commission Minutes approving the petition and the letter from the Commission’s counsel, Attorney Eric Knapp.
Attorney Michael Cronin was present to represent the applicants, who were also present. He stated that the applicants would like to construct a 55,000 square foot indoor sports facility, divided into two portions. Attorney Cronin explained that the property they have in mind is at the end of Machnik Drive in the Industrial Zone. He noted that the applicants have come before the Commission for a change in the Regulations because the use is not currently allowed in the Industrial Zone. Attorney Cronin stated that one side of the facility will be a full-size hockey rink and the other side will be another area the same size as a hockey rink but the surface will be turf. He explained that the rink will be used for any type of skating that one can imagine, not just hockey and he noted that it will
not be an arena but rather will have very limited spectator seating. Attorney Cronin stated that the turf will be suitable for soccer, lacrosse and similar sports.
Attorney Cronin stated that access is one of the most important aspects of this type of facility. He noted that the current Regulations allow this type of facility in the C-30 and C-10 Zones. Attorney Cronin stated that the C-30 Zone in Town near the highway is the shopping center area which is almost 100 percent developed and a small area on the Shore Road. He indicated that the Machnik Drive location is the most suitable for this type of facility as it so close to I95 and the entire length of roadway from I-95 to the Machnik Road location does not have one residential home. Attorney Cronin presented the Assessor’s Map and showed the location which is 8.14 acres of land at the end of Machnik Drive.
Mr. Pryor stated that they hired an industry expert and the facility they are emulating is one in Stamford which is located in a densely populated area. He noted that that facility is on much less than 8 acres. Mr. Johnson questioned whether the Regulations have a parking requirement that addresses this type of use. Chairman Cable stated that the Regulations do not currently include parking requirements for this type of use. Attorney Cronin stated that Section 18.4.8 includes requirements for places of public recreation such as libraries and museums which is not really on point. He indicated that the parking requirement under places of public recreation are one space for each four legal occupants under the State Fire Safety Code. Attorney Cronin stated that this requirement would be
ample for this type of facility. He indicated that they have not gone through the computations.
Chairman Cable stated that Attorney Branse has indicated that even though the applicant has not applied to change the parking regulations, the Commission could do so because it would be more strict. She indicated that if the applicant could get a good feel for the maximum amount of people that would be at the facility at one time, they would have something to go on for parking and not have to go through the Petition process again in the future to consider a parking regulation.
Mr. Looney stated that this facility would be twice the size of the facility in Waterford. It was noted that the facility in Waterford also has a gym with brings a lot of vehicles. Mr. Pryor stated that the Stamford Twin Rinks has 280 parking spaces. He noted that he would anticipate the maximum number of participants at one time would be 60, 30 hockey players and 30 kids on the turf field.
Attorney Cronin stated that his proposed regulation change comes right from the existing regulation that allows this use in the C-10 and C-30 Districts, “assembly halls, dance halls, bowling alleys and indoor and outdoor recreation facilities . . . provided no facility is within 100 feet of a residential or rural district.” He noted that the protection of residential areas is addressed. Attorney Cronin stated that these are Sections 5.11.3 and 5.10.3 of the current Regulations. He indicated that he eliminated assembly halls, dance halls and bowling alleys in his proposed regulation. Attorney Cronin stated that he also eliminated outdoor recreation facility with the intention that eliminating outdoor facilities reduces many concerns such as lighting, noise, pesticide use, etc. He
indicated that he added, after the word skating, soccer, lacrosse, hockey and field hockey and left the words and similar such activities. Attorney Cronin stated that he did not change the words a lot, but rather eliminated many uses that could create concerns.
Attorney Cronin explained that the Planning Commission was very supportive of the proposal. He noted that industrial land is the least active land in the shoreline communities. Attorney Cronin stated that big operations don’t come in because of the lack of sewers. He noted that the other Towns, such as Old Saybrook, allow this type of use in the industrial zone. He noted that Clinton excludes this type of use in the commercial zone and allows it in the industrial zones; Deep River allows it in their commercial zones.
Attorney Cronin stated that his grandson plays soccer and he has been in many indoor facilities of this type throughout New England. He stated that Oakwood, in Glastonbury, is right in the middle of an industrial park. Attorney Cronin stated that this is one of the most active facilities with four fields. He noted that there is a facility in the Farmington Industrial Park with four indoor fields and one outdoor field, while they are constructing two more outdoor fields. He explained that there is a facility in Clinton now in the industrial area; he noted that Hamden has a facility in the industrial park, along with Norwalk, again in an industrial area. Attorney Cronin went on to describe other facilities in New England, all in industrial areas. He noted that people attending the events
in these facilities know to bring their own chairs; he indicated that there are very few bleachers. He pointed out that there is a lot of carpooling and noted that most of the use of the facilities is for practices, not games.
Mr. Pryor stated that the Stamford Rinks are located in a commercial zone. He noted that the single rink facility is located on the beach and the Stamford Twin Rinks are located in an industrial zone; Cromwell has a facility that has two rinks, a pool and gym; the Newington Rink is in an industrial area; and the Simsbury Rink is located in a commercial/industrial area. Chairman Cable questioned whether the lack of Town water would be a problem in maintaining an ice rink. Mr. Pryor stated that when the rink is originally placed water can be trucked in. He noted that they plan to collect water from the roof for re-use.
Attorney Cronin pointed out that Attorney Knapp indicated in his letter that the text of the Petition is properly drafted. He pointed out that the Special Permit process will give the Commission a lot of control and review of the development of the project. Attorney Cronin stated that they do anticipate a snack bar and sports stores which would be accessory to this type of use.
Mr. Johnson stated that parking is the major issue and suggested that Ms. Brown could investigate what other Towns require. Attorney Cronin stated that discussion on the hours of operation would be premature. He indicated that any severe restriction on hours of use would impact the business. Attorney Cronin noted that any hockey parent would know that ice time starts early in the morning.
Before accepting public comment, Chairman Cable stated that the Commission is only considering an indoor recreational use in the Industrial Districts, not a particular facility on a particular lot. She asked that the audience please limit their comments to this topic.
Ms. Marsh stated that she recalls something in the Regulations limiting building size in Old Lyme to 40,000 square feet. She asked whether Attorney Cronin recalls this. Ms. Brown indicated that she recalls the same, but wonders whether it was removed in the Regulation rewrite. Mr. Johnson stated that Kellogg is 110,000 or 120,000 square feet. Ms. Marsh stated that the limit could have been only in the commercial zones as they were trying to avoid “big box” stores.
John Mueller, 4 Butterwick Lane, asked the Commission to consider the proximity to a residential area and the access to the residential area through the Industrial Park. He stated that the facility will literally be in his front yard. Mr. Mueller stated that these facilities are placed in industrial areas for a reason. He stated that the proximity will be a challenge for the Chestnut Hill neighborhood. Mr. Mueller stated that light, hours of operation and drainage are potential challenges. He indicated that he would prefer no activity between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m.
Brian Shannon, 2 Chestnut Hill, stated that his property is closest to Kellog. He indicated that the lights are visual and the truck back-up beepers are heard throughout the day. Mr. Shannon stated that a facility such as this is a private business and not just for Old Lyme residents so it shouldn’t be compared to Town Woods. He indicated that the applicant stated that the applicant indicated that they would anticipate the rink being home to three or four high school teams and if that is the case there will be many fans in attendance. Mr. Shannon stated that he would like to see hours of operation between 7 a.m. and 9 p.m. He indicated that a few hundred cars going up and down the industrial road will change the rural character of the road. Mr. Shannon questioned whether the
facility belonged in Old Lyme and if it did, suggested that the commercial area near the A&P might be more appropriate. He stated that when he was in high school no fans were allowed to come to the hockey games because there were so many fights. He pointed out that the Commission should consider that the use will be more than eight year olds playing soccer.
Jane Bysko, 4 Lantern Lane, stated that the traffic is her biggest concern. She indicated that she has been with the ambulance for 15 years. Ms. Bysko stated that a facility this size will contribute a lot of traffic; it will need to in order to stay in business. She noted that the Town roads are very winding and are not good roads for heavy traffic. Ms. Bysko stated that they would have to do a detailed traffic survey.
Mr. Mohamed, 6 Swanswood Lane, stated that he has played soccer his entire life. He stated that is hard to be quantitative with this kind of business. Mr. Mohamed stated that tournaments are a way for facilities like this to stay in business and during such tournaments there could be ten teams present at the same time. He indicated that when people are playing inside during these tournaments there will be people outside waiting for their turn to play. Mr. Mohamed stated that he was born outside the U.S. and chose to live in Old Lyme to raise his children. He indicated that construction of a place like this would make him leave Chestnut Hill.
Andy Russell, 8 Swanswood Lane, stated that the point made about the hours of operation are important. He indicated that he played hockey in his youth and at an early age the ice time is 6:00 a.m. but people arrive a half hour to an hour earlier to get ready and in his later years of hockey the mens’ league games started at 10:00 p.m. and people hung around until 12:00 or 12:30 a.m. Mr. Russell stated that people also stayed later than that in the parking lot. He indicated that noise needs to be a consideration. Mr. Russell stated that he would propose hours of 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. He indicated that from a traffic point of view, and industrial use would have 30 cars coming in and 30 cars leaving a day. Chairman Cable stated that the industrial zone allows a bus storage facility.
She noted that she has a school bus facility one half mile from her house. Mr. Russell stated that there is an emergency egress that goes from his neighborhood through to the industrial area.
Michelle Wang, 5 Butterwick Lane, stated that she may be the closest house to the proposed facility. She indicated that she shares the same concerns as the other neighbors. Ms. Wang stated that she drove her children to Norwich to skate. She indicated that she does not feel the facility should be that close to a residential area. Ms. Wang stated that the facility should be constructed closer to I95. Chairman Cable pointed out that the neighborhood has always abutted a light industrial zone and there are many uses that would be equally or more offensive. Ms. Wang stated an office building would be more appropriate. Chairman Cable stated that there are other uses such as a Dry Cleaning Facility or a Rug Cleaning Facility are allowed in the zone. Ms. Wang stated that she is
discussing what is being proposed at this time.
Jacqueline Shannon, 2 Chestnut Hill, stated that they experienced this same type of issue with Kellogg. She indicated that no one monitors the hours of operation and noise level and the neighborhood has been quiet about it. Ms. Shannon stated that having this type of facility would be disappointing to the neighborhood. She noted that the Town accommodated Kellogg by allowing them to use many different easements. Ms. Shannon stated when Kellogg was being constructed they blasted and it affected her well. She indicated that Kellogg was a traffic concern and this is an even bigger traffic concern with the volume of cars. Chairman Cable stated that there is no plan before the Commission, they are only discussing whether it is a good use for the industrial zone. Mr. Kiritsis stated
that if Kellogg is violating their Site Plan she should speak with the Zoning Enforcement Officer. Chairman Cable stated that a situation that is against the Zoning approval should be brought to the Town’s attention. She indicated that without residents’ input, the Town will have no idea. Ms. Shannon stated that she constructed her house in 2000 and between the time she bought the lot and constructed there were new uses added to the Industrial Zone. Chairman Cable stated that the only additions were septic transfer facilities and telecommunication towers. Ms. Shannon stated that she was told only office buildings no taller than two stories. She indicated that her last concern is that she heard the facility would be serving alcohol. Chairman Cable stated that she would doubt that. Ms. Shannon stated that the serving of alcohol would be a concern to her. Ms. Shannon stated that she has brought multiple violations to
the Town over the years and she gave up because it is exhausting and she is a busy mom. She indicated that the Town should be monitoring the use of the land.
Eileen Mueller, 4 Butterwick Lane, asked to see the proposed property on the Assessor’s Map. She stated she understands that the property is zoned light industrial but they didn’t expect a recreational facility with the potential of people loitering. Ms. Mueller stated that she and other adults tailgate in the parking lots of these type of facilities because when one is at a tournament and only has a half hour between games, this tailgating is planned in advance. She indicated that a traffic study would have to be required because of the volume of cars and the condition of Hatchetts Hill Road. Ms. Mueller stated that there are no sidewalks on the roadway for pedestrians. She indicated that the Town might have to provide increased security for this type of operation. Ms.
Mueller stated that the Commission should also discuss the type of buffer that would protect the neighborhood. She noted that 100’ is not a far distance as suggested by the Commission’s counsel in his letter of review. Ms. Mueller indicated that she would think the hours of 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. would minimize the potential impact.
Chairman Cable stated that the concerns she has heard this evening are: hours of operation, lights, noise, visual impact, loitering, traffic on the road, traffic in and out, noise from the compressors, access through the emergency area, and security. She questioned whether anyone in the audience had a new concern.
Jim Goldberg, 7 Lantern Lane, stated that there are pluses and minuses to allow this type of use. He indicated that if the value of the subdivision and the area is devalued, some people will leave. Mr. Goldberg stated that people live in Old Lyme for a reason. He indicated that the roadways are dangerous now and the traffic from this facility will make it more so. He indicated that many of the other uses allowed in the zone will not have the hours of operation and the amount of traffic that will be generated from a recreational facility.
Attorney Cronin stated that he has a great respect for the people that have spoken and their concerns. He stated that many of the other possible uses would also provide them with concerns. Attorney Cronin stated that 70 percent of the people that use this facility will not be old enough to drive. He indicated that these types of facilities are quiet and he hasn’t seen any problems with loitering and the like. Attorney Cronin stated that the Commission could set limits, such as no picnic tables, during the site plan approval process.
Chairman Cable stated that she does not believe the Commission will close the Public Hearing tonight because of the parking requirements. Attorney Cronin agreed and indicated that it will allow him an opportunity to do further research on some issues.
A motion was made by John Johnson, seconded by Pat Looney and voted unanimously to continue the Public Hearing to the October 10, 2012 Regular Meeting (Wednesday) to amend the Zoning Regulations, Kasie Munson, 7 Duchess Drive and Patrick Pryor, 41 Jericho Drive, applicants.
The Commission took a five-minute recess at this time.
2. Special Permit Application and Municipal Coastal Site Plan Review Application to construct a 14,600 s.f. two-story professional office building at 1 Huntley Road, Huntley & Halls, LLC, applicants.
Ms. Marsh read the exhibit list for the record.
Tim Londregen, 8 Thomas Waite Drive, was present to explain the application. He explained that the plan which was received at the September Hearing is the same plan that they approved in February 2008. Mr. Londregen explained that the only change is to the septic plan. He stated that they have re-filed the application because the Town has taken the stand that because the construction did not begin within one year of the approval, that the approval has expired. Mr. Londregen stated that they were under the impression that State Statute applied and that they had nine years to begin the project. He indicated that after speaking with Ms. Brown they decided to re-file because it appears to be the most expeditious and practical way to handle the situation. Ms. Brown stated that it is now a
Special Permit Application because the Regulations have changed since the original approval.
Mr. Londregen stated that the Regulations call for professional office use which entails medical use. He indicated that their intention is medical use but the Statement of Use indicates and/or. Mr. Londregen stated that the medical use requires one handicap space for every 25 parking spaces.
Greg Fetus, PE, gave a brief over view of the project. He noted that there is a one-way in from Huntley Road as Huntley Road is one-way. Mr. Fetus pointed out the wetlands and pond on the northeast end of the property. He traced the property line and pointed it out on the location map. Mr. Fetus stated that the well is located to the north of the building and all the impervious paving is directed to a basin on the south of the property. He noted that roof drainage goes to an underground storage facility, which then goes to a drywell that has an overflow. Mr. Fetus pointed out the existing trees on the site plan and noted that most of the trees to be removed have already been removed.
Mr. Fetus stated that the landscaping plan is the same plan that the Commission approved four years ago. Mr. Londregen stated that he walked the property with the neighbor, Mr. Buscetto, and he was very pleased with the plantings and wrote a letter indicating such to the Commission. Mr. Fetus stated that they adjusted to the leaching field making it 18” deep instead of 12” deep. He noted that the septic system design from the original application was for professional offices and there was a note on the plan indicating that the system would have to be changed for a medical use. He indicated that the current application has a septic system designed for medical use and must be reviewed by the local health department and then on to the State Health Department for their approval. Mr.
Fetus stated that this process is in the works.
Mr. Johnson questioned the current condition of the wetlands. Mr. Fetus replied that it is a pond. He noted that there are no wetland grasses.
Mr. Fetus reviewed Mr. Metcalf’s letter. He explained that he checked with two architects and both stated that the handicap parking required is 1 space for every 25 parking spaces. He indicated that the site plan meets this requirement. Mr. Looney stated that he believes the section of the State Regulations require more than 1/25 for ambulatory care facilities. Mr. Looney stated that a cardiac rehabilitation office would require 10 percent handicap parking. Mr. Fetus stated that if they are short on handicap parking they will revise the parking plan. Mr. Looney stated that if a certain type of doctor’s office wanted to rent an office, they could be short on parking, and if he remembers correctly the parking was tight. Mr. Fetus stated that the septic system meets the 50’ setback where the original site plan showed the septic system at 48’. He stated that the Old Lyme Fire Department has stated that the Lieutenant River Fire Well is located sufficiently for this site and a
copy of the letter is in the file. Mr. Fetus stated that the traffic has not changed since the original application. Mr. Johnson questioned whether they discussed making Huntley Road a two way road. Chairman Cable indicated that they did discuss reversing the one-way so that traffic came out at the light on 156. Mr. Fetus stated that he has changed the note on the plan to indicate the how height is to be measured. He indicated that they have addressed all the issues in Mr. Metcalf’s letter. Chairman Cable stated that Mr. Metcalf sent a subsequent letter indicating that any outstanding engineering issues could be a condition of approval.
Chairman Cable stated that there should be three handicap spots including one handicap van accessible space shown on the plan, which there is. She indicated that it appears all of Mr. Metcalf’s concerns have been addressed.
Mr. Londregen stated that the property is 6.21 acres and they are developing 1.25 acres, which basically leaves five acres undisturbed.
Walter Sanders, 234 Mile Creek Road, stated that he moved to Old Lyme 35 years ago to raise his kids. He stated that he cannot help but feel how fortunate the Town is to have such a nice development. Mr. Sanders stated that he is 72 years old and a medical facility nearby is important to him and it is an architectural jewel. He indicated that the taxes and jobs that it will bring to the Town are a great thing too.
A motion was made by John Johnson, seconded by Pat Looney and voted unanimously to close the Public Hearing on the application for 1 Huntley Road, Huntley & Halls, LLC, applicants.
Chairman Cable adjourned the Public Hearing at 9:36 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Susan J. Bartlett
Recording Secretary
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